Reframeables
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Reframeables
Reframing "The Sex Talk" with Emily Roach
Today we're reframing how we talk about sex with kids with sex-positivity communicator Emily Roach — whose loyal and growing following on TikTok suggest that we're not the only ones looking for this conversation. We talk about creating spaces for judgement-free conversations, healing our own relationship to sex, and ways of speaking about consent. Listen in and we hope you learn some new words — we did!
Links:
Hey Sweetie
Come As You Are by Emily Nagoski
Jessica Valenti
For more from Emily, check out her TikTok
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If our conversations support you in your own reframing practice, please consider a donation on our Patreon, where you can also hear bonus episodes, or tipping us on Ko-fi. Subscribe to the Reframeables Newsletter. Follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube too.
We love hearing from our listeners! Leave us a voice message, write to the show email, or send us a DM on any of our socials.
If our conversations support you in your own reframing practice, please consider a donation on our Patreon, where you can also hear bonus episodes, or tipping us on Ko-fi. Subscribe to the Reframeables Newsletter. Follow us on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube too.
Natalie
Hello, Reframeables — it’s Nat.
Rebecca
And Bec — two very different sisters who come together each week to reframe some of life’s big and small problems. We’re moms, writers…
Natalie
We have soft boundaries. We see the world differently, but we both lean in to vulnerability together and with our guests, because we like deep dives. So come with us, let’s reframe something.
Rebecca
Today, we are reframing how we talk about sex with kids with sex-positivity communicator Emily Roach, whose loyal and growing following on TikTok suggests that we’re not the only ones looking for this conversation.
Natalie
She has like 300,000 followers, Bec — that’s a lot of sex talk.
Rebecca
Indeed. So, takeaways: it’s an ongoing conversation, not a one-and-done.
Natalie
And the goal is judgement-free conversations, which start with healing our own relationship to sex.
Rebecca
We’re going to make mistakes, and the beauty of reframing is that we can keep coming back to our kids to try again.
Natalie
And for those of us with younger kids, it’s never too young to start talking about consent. So listen in, and we hope you learn some new words — because we did. Reframing the sex talk with Emily Roach.
Rebecca
How do you sum up your work in a title? Are you a coach? Are you a sex-positivist counsellor? Tell our listeners a little bit about how you got to where you are today, and what you call yourself.
Emily
When I did my degree, I took communications in university, and I’ve worked as a professional communicator (like at my 9-to-5) ever since. And really the core of my job as a communicator has always been to take information from the subject matter experts and then translate it into digestible, understandable content, you know? So whether that’s writing correspondence or speeches or news releases, that’s really the bulk of what it is to be in communications is to take information and translate it into something that people who aren’t subject matter experts can easily understand. And so I guess when I try to think about what title I would give myself, it’s a sex-positivity communicator, because I’m still working towards being a certified sex educator, but really what I do is I try to translate — there’s so much information that’s out there and available for people, and make it into something that they can understand and something that they can share with their kids as well.
Natalie
So you have, like, more than 300,000 followers on TikTok.
Emily
Yeah — I broke 300 last week.
Natalie
Wow, right? I mean, so people are really searching out content like yours, and I’m assuming that your account is what inspired your book, Hey Sweetie: The Sex-Positive Guide for Navigating Tricky Conversations with Your Teen. Or was it vice versa — had you written the book, and then the account kind of came from that? So tell us a little bit about that.
Emily
My content definitely inspired the guide. I was talking in one of my videos about trying to reframe sort of how, you know, having the sex talk with your kids — the talk. And saying, you know, you have to have so many talks. There’s so many things to talk about. You know, picking a partner, talking about consent, talking about porn, talking about the reasons people… like, so many conversations have to be had. So many topics have to be covered. And then I would get a lot of comments from people saying, you know, “I understand that, but how?” Because a lot of people have the information, they have access to it. They’ve seen public health experts saying, you know, “Open and judgement-free communication is what you need to have with your kids.” They’ve read work by Emily Nagoski or Jessica Valenti, for example, and they know, but they just don’t know how to translate that into parenting.
So I wrote a mock talk. I think one of my Hey Sweeties, the first one I did, was about picking a sexual partner. And I had a bunch of parents sort of tagging their teenagers in it, saying, “Listen to this.” And then I had, it was actually featured by a keynote speaker at an international conference for women’s sexual health saying, you know, “What if we were able to have parents talking to their kids about sex like this?” And more and more comments would come in like, “Do you have this written down somewhere?” So I wrote it down and I put it on Amazon, but really it’s a guide. It’s not necessarily a book. I am working on a full-fledged book where I, you know, delve more into these conversations, into these topics. But it’s 25 pages, it’s a collection of six talks for parents to have with their kids, and it’s just ready-to-go language — well-researched, sex-positive language.
Rebecca
I really like the idea that it’s ongoing talks, and it’s not one talk. I mean, that’s helpful to me, because you don’t have to get it perfect. You don’t have to find these magic words — that this is the one time I will say these things to you. That’s so old school, I guess — the talk.
Emily
Yeah. I think it’s so outdated, and also it’s so much more difficult for both the parents and the kids. You know, if you’re having these conversations from the get-go — where, you know, even as they’re little you’re talking to them about their bodies, and they’re setting boundaries, and their body bubble. And then, you know, you casually start talking to them about puberty just gradually. You know, when they ask you what a tampon is, you just answer it honestly. And then you don’t have to have this sudden, out-of-nowhere conversation about things that we’ve never talked about before and we’ve always pretended don’t exist, and it’s so much easier for everybody if it’s just an ongoing conversation, because it is an ongoing part of life — our bodies and sex and puberty and things like that. These aren’t just like, sporadic — one time and it’s done. It’s an ongoing conversation.
Rebecca
Right. Do you sense from the feedback you get on TikTok that people see it that way — that it’s ongoing? Or has that been sort of a radical thing you’ve imparted?
Emily
It’s funny, because every time I think that what I’m saying is common sense, it ends up being super radical. But I’d say it’s split. I’d say 50% of people say, “Well, of course it’s ongoing conversations.” And then there’s another 50% saying, you know, “Well, why do you want to talk to your kids about sex so much?” Like, “This is creepy. Why are you so involved?” And it’s like, no, it’s not like an overinvolvement or overinvestment in their sex life. It’s just ongoing conversations about something that we want to normalize having conversations about.
Rebecca
Yeah. Ok, but a question: there are obviously a lot of us out there who are stressed about talking about sex? I’m trying to think, I’m trying to decide how I feel about it. I do feel with my teenager that I could overstep boundaries just by saying… sometimes anything. So I do… So I’m like, “Did I miss the boat on having some of these ongoing conversations?” I don’t know. Why are you not stressed about this? Like, how did you gain this fluidity in this language? Like, I just really wanna know who your parents are.
Natalie
It’s true. How did they raise this?
Rebecca
Yes — like, are you reacting against something by being, “I’m doing it different.” How are you not stressed?
Emily
I am doing it different. And that’s not to speak poorly of my parents. I have wonderful, involved, loving, protective parents. But I don’t think that they approached these types of conversations well, in that it was very taboo. You know, like it was very awkward to have conversations with my parents. I think I one time had a yeast infection that got kind of out of control because I didn’t want to be like, “Mom, it’s itchy,” — like, because it was just so weird to talk about it. And, you know, I had negative experiences and when I was in university, we had a guest speaker come in and talk about sex-positivity. And I had that visceral reaction that so many people have when they’re first introduced to my content — like, “But sex is so dangerous. There’s so many things that could go wrong.” And then she said, you know, “Yes, absolutely. And that’s exactly why we should be aiming to have more sex-positive conversations, more sex-neutral conversations.”
And, you know, in places and countries where the culture is more sex-positive, there’s less sexual assault, there’s less teen pregnancy, there’s less STI transmission, and things like that. There’s this confirmation bias that can happen in the cycle of sex-negativity. Like for example, you know, my parents telling me, “Sex is dangerous and has so many risks. Don’t have sex, because if you do, you know, there’s pregnancy, there’s this.” And then I had a pregnancy at 19, so it would’ve been very easy for me to go, “Oh, they were right. Sex was dangerous.” And then to then continue that with my kids. “No, you don’t understand — like, sex is dangerous.”
But was sex what was dangerous, or was my lack of information about how to be properly safe, and how to, you know, be selective about certain things — understand that, you know, your UTI medication might affect your birth control. Things like that. Like, is that what left me pregnant at 19, or was it sex? In all of the self-reflection that I’ve done, and in all of the reading that I’ve done, it’s the lack of information that’s the danger, not sex itself. But I’m definitely still stressed sometimes — like, it’s not like it’s just second nature a hundred percent, you know? But the more you do it, the more you talk about it, I do think the easier it gets.
Rebecca
But you’re, like, entering the conversation. You’re like, “I’m going towards the dangerous (I have air quotes here) conversation.” You’re not running away from it.
Emily
Yeah, and you fake it till you make it, you know? Like, the first time I started saying ‘vulva’ with my kids, I was like, “That seems so strange.” I grew up, we called it a ‘weewee’ in my house. I don’t know why that’s the word we had, but that was the word that we had. And when I first started saying ‘vulva,’ it was like, “Oh, this is so strange. This is so uncomfortable.” But now when I say ‘weewee,’ I have that same effect, and ‘vulva’ is just a word. So I think it’s the same with everything. You know, I still get uncomfortable about things, but the other day one of my kids said, “Well, what’s puberty?” And then my older kid started explaining certain things. It was just so matter-of-fact for them. And I was like, “Well, I guess I don’t seem as uncomfortable to them as I actually feel.”
Natalie
Can you tell us a couple more takeaways from the book then? Because that obviously then is happening with your kids. They’re saying the things that you’re teaching. What are some of those learnings?
Emily
To be sex-positive, I think a lot of people misunderstand that as, you know, thinking that sex is always a positive thing. But really it’s about establishing a positive relationship with sex itself, and that’s going to look so different for everyone. So what I want some of the takeaways to be is that judgement-free and open communication allows your kids to make those choices, because their sex life is probably not going to look like yours. How they value it might look like yours. It might not. So there are so many different perspectives, different outlooks to have about sex, and it’s about allowing your kids to make that choice. But that’s not necessarily something you can do before you’ve healed that part in yourself, right? So I guess the two takeaways would be to allow that for your kids to have happier and healthier sex lives, but also to consider how things might have been different for you — and to heal that part of you, because you also deserve to have a positive relationship with sex itself.
Natalie
Yeah. So this isn’t just about our kids — this is about us. That may seem so obvious to some folks, but for me is a bit of an a-ha learning.
Rebecca
Do you get asked, “How’s your sex life?”
Emily
Oh, a lot. I think actually most of those types of intrusive comments are from people who really disagree with my take, and come from that sort of puritannical perspective. And they’re like, “Oh, well, spoken like someone who’s had hundreds of partners.” You know, it’s always funny to me because, relatively speaking, I actually have quite small number of partners, because I was with my husband so young, so that’s always a funny takeaway for some people to have. But no, I don’t get too many people sort of pushing those boundaries, and really I just ignore them. You know, I got a DM from someone saying, “Can we talk about sexual things?” And I was just like, “I’m just not going to entertain that even with an answer, even with a ‘no.’ It’s just not something I’ll answer.”
Rebecca
That’s just a quick block.
Emily
Yeah, that’s just a quick easy, “Sorry, no. Bye.”
Rebecca
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Natalie
So, ok, my son… because I’m thinking that little book that you’ve got there sounds so wonderful for teens, and even pre-teens, right? I mean, sort of like building into it. But my kid, it’s a boy, and so there’s something right there that I feel like… my husband is a big dude — like, big shoulders. My kid’s going to grow into a version of that man, and I feel like there is such a deep sense of responsibility that I carry, that we both carry as partners, in wanting to make sure that our son is very aware of the power that his body just carries in the world. There’s a lot of privilege that just comes with, as we all know, being a white man who has physical power. And so wanting to make sure that he’s responsible and capable, but also super-sensitive to his own, you know, like, feelings and needs, and so all these things.
He’s eight — like, my God, like I’m putting a lot of pressure on myself, but maybe not. Like, after this conversation I’m thinking, “No, we’ve got to be doing these things from, like, right now.” So do you have any… I don’t know, I know it’s hard to sum things up, but do you have sort of a takeaway for the parents of little boys? Because I do feel like a lot of sex education ends up being presented to girls as a way to, like, protect themselves. And I don’t think that that’s your way at all — I think it’s much more holistic. But thinking specifically for the boy parents out there, whatever that means.
Emily
Like you said, I think that we have to have these conversations with all of our kids, whether they’re boys, girls, or something in-between or neither. But, you know, conversations about consent can start super young, you know? Like, “This is my body bubble, this is my boundary.” You know, “Please respect my boundaries.” I also have a son, and there’s definitely that sense of responsibility that I have as well, especially when you consider how sex is so frequently framed as being this experience that’s really only about men’s pleasure. And if the woman is pleased, well that’s just one heck of a generous lover — wow, what a bonus. And it’s like, that’s crazy to me. It’s not just about their pleasure. And I think that in and of itself, just conveying that message during your conversations with your son, when you get to that point about talking to them about sex, is huge.
I also think that, you know, being sure when you’re talking to them about porn, whether you’re going to take sort of like a prohibitionist or harm-reduction type of approach to talking to your kids about porn, making sure that no matter what you’re taking the time to humanize the person on screen. Because, you know, we have boys (and girls), but boys who are accessing porn at the tip of their fingers, with the push of a button. And it’s always male-centric. You know, you have these girls, every single one of them in the videos are finishing from penetration, when really, 90% of us can’t finish that way. You know, they can Google, you know, ‘girls doing this,’ and there they are.
So I think, you know, emphasizing consent as it relates to not just agreeing to do something, but enjoying it and being engaged in it, being involved in it, being treated fairly. And then the second part of it is making sure that they’re conscious of the fact that they have that privilege. Making sure that they’re aware that, you know, you can always say ‘no.’ You know that you can say no, right? Like, just, you know, giving your partner that grace and that space to make those decisions. Because a lot of us will say ‘yes’ because we’re afraid to say ‘no.’ But I think also just the fact that you’re conscious of it is a huge step, and a huge indicator that it’s going to turn out ok. Because a lot of parents just are like, “Oh, well not my son.” So I think that’s great.
Natalie
Yeah, it’s wild. Just wild to think that that’s, like, even down their road, right? Like, at eight. I understand the proclivity in parents and guardians to want to just sort of keep this very innocent right now, right now — but it’s coming fast and furious, this exposure, because of the beauties and ills of the internet. So if we’re all participating, let’s join the conversation.
Rebecca
So if you could go back and talk about sex the way you do now to your younger self, what would that look like? Was there something particular you needed to hear?
Emily
Oh God, there were so many things that I needed to hear. I mean, the impact that sex-negativity had on me, it was so profound. And it was simple things, like, you know, setting body boundaries. Like, I’m not a hugger, never really been a hugger, but I always would hug my friends because they would come in for a hug. And just not really recognizing that, yeah, I can just back away, and say, “No, I don’t want a hug.” So simple things like that. And then more complex things, like I had a two to three year-long sexual relationship with a really emotionally manipulative guy when I was a teenager, and it was awful. And I think, you know, just hearing things like one of the messages that I repeat often (and I think part of it is for my 16-year-old self, I wish I could just tell her), you know, “Casual sex is fine. Casual sex is fun. I love it. Having sex with someone when you two are in love is also wonderful. I love that too. Having sex when one person is in love and the other person is not shouldn’t happen, and it hurts a lot.” And it’s hard to keep it casual when one person has those romantic feelings.
You know, telling them that friends with benefits, you know, friends is supposed to come first — it’s just because there’s that sex. Just because there’s no romantic relationship doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t be holding high standards for how you deserve to be treated with respect, and how your consent deserves to be respected. And I think about that a lot. But then I also think about, you know, even if that had all been reframed for me, if it hadn’t been reframed for my peers, how really would that have changed my life? I can’t really say. I can’t really say, but I wish I could go back and tell myself some things for sure. Not that I would change where I am now, though.
Rebecca
You’re also saying that you were battling how sex was viewed in your peer group. Is that what you’re saying?
Emily
More like, for example, a lot of the ways that my partner in high school had mistreated me. I think that if we were to go textbook by what we were taught was acceptable behaviour, he would have been ok. Like, you know, had I said, “No, I don’t want this,” he wouldn’t have pushed further. But when I said, “No, I don’t want this,” he goes, “Well, then you can just leave, because why are you here?” And then I say, “Ok, well sure, I’ll do it,” you know, not realizing that that was emotionally coercive — and, I mean, do I resent him? I mean, I’m not going to send him a bouquet of flowers anytime soon. But also, based on what we were taught to do, he hadn’t really done anything wrong.
Again, I’m not saying that he didn’t do anything wrong, but based on what we were taught, he followed the rules. So it’s wondering, you know, if we have to change the rules and we have to change the education that all of our kids are getting so that we’re not putting the onus of stopping unwanted touch, stopping unwanted advances on the person who doesn’t want them, so that we’re understanding that consent is way more than just a word of yes or no, and just expanding this understanding for so many people, because I think it’s really important that we’re surrounded by people who have a proper understanding of that.
Rebecca
You were sort of touching on how emotionally complex sex is — like how do I convey that to my teen, or do you think that puts an unnecessary burden on it? Did you sort of need some unpacking about that burden, or the complexity of this experience, and you didn’t know that you were allowed to say that, “Yeah, this is complex for me. I don’t know what I feel here.” Do you know what I’m asking?
Emily
Yeah, I think that when we talk about being ready to have sex, I think talking about emotional readiness is really important. I think where a lot of people will — well, I say go wrong, that’s a subjective take, but in my opinion, where a lot of people go wrong when talking about emotional readiness to their kids is they say, you know, “You’re just not ready. You don’t understand. It’s way too much emotionally.” I think that’s not necessarily the right approach for a couple of reasons. First of all, as a teenager, if my parents told me, “You’re just too immature,” basically, I would have been like, “Well, you don’t know,” — and also can come across as condescending, even if it’s meant with the best of intentions. Even if it’s not meant in a condescending way, it can come across that way when we’re telling kids, “You know, your brain isn’t developed.”
And then, also I think it’s placing this implication that sex is always going to be super-emotional, and it’s not. It doesn’t have to always be super-emotional. You can have casual sex. You can have fun, lighthearted, safe sex, and there’s nothing wrong with that either. But I think when I talk about preparing our kids with that emotional readiness, it’s teaching them to be able to identify what emotions are sort of driving their decision-making. You know, are they acting from a place of romantic, “I’m so in love with this guy,” or are they acting from a place of, “Wow, he looks really good in that t-shirt, and I would be ok if this is the only time he and I ever interact, but I’d like to have sex.” And I think being able to identify your emotions, being able to identify your intentions is what we should really be communicating with our kids — and communicating that they should hope to be clear of that partner’s intentions as well. So like, you know, if you are acting from that place of crazy, stupid love, that’s also what your partner was doing. He’s not just thinking that you look super good in your t-shirt (or she). I think that that should be the focus — you know, making sure that you’re managing your emotions, rather than your emotions managing you. Making sure that you’re able to identify and distinguish one intention from another, as opposed to placing this like it’s so emotionally heavy because it isn’t always, and I think that when we teach that, it will always be emotionally heavy.
Natalie
We talk about reframing, right? That’s what Reframeables is all about. And I feel like you’ve been exemplifying that in this conversation. I mean, it’s really great, because reframing for us is about sort of working our way through from various perspectives to the other side of an issue, but not necessarily coming up with a definitive answer. It’s not about coming up with sort of a yes or a no. And I think that yeah, you’ve really shown that. So is it a word that resonates for you? Like obviously for us, you’re coming on here, you’re using it because you’re like, “These are the reframing ladies. I’ll do it.” But is there something for you that’s like, does it kind of touch on something in your own sex-positivity journey?
Emily
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think like, you know, from when we talk about reframing consent from like that ‘no means no’ framework into more of a ‘yes means yes’ framework where, you know, you’re shifting the onus from one person stopping unwanted advances to the other person making sure that they’re practicing ethical consent. You know, shifting that framework. It’s a huge reframe. You know, reframing sex from being something that girls or women are doing for their male counterparts, as opposed to being something they do with them. I mean, that’s a very heteronormative perspective, but you know what I mean. It’s so often framed as a male-centric activity and then, “Oh bonus. Wow, he’s such a generous lover. He cared that I was enjoying it afterwards.”
You know, it’s all about the reframe, and I think that’s so important to understand, is that it’s not necessarily saying everything you know is wrong, but have you considered why you know what you know? Have you considered, if we looked at it from this angle, how would that affect what you know? How would that affect the experiences you had? Because the experiences you had were real, and they were important. But you know, if you’re looking at it from one angle and then you shift and you reframe and look at it from another, it’s a completely different experience.
Rebecca
Also, I realize one thing that was never said to us growing up… we didn’t have a lot of sex conversations in our household, did we Nat?
Natalie
No. That was an area where, you know, we want to do differently in our own households for sure.
Rebecca
Both of my parents came from really religious backgrounds, so I think that they didn’t have any facility around that language. But how do you talk about now — because we certainly, I didn’t know that I could want to have sex with a girl. It wasn’t part of my psyche. It was very gender binary, there was no fluidity there at all. So how do you speak about and impart the more fluid nature of sexuality?
Emily
I’ve come across very heteronormative in this conversation, but mostly because I’ve been speaking about my own experiences, and my sexual experiences have been with men. But when I’m talking to my kids, you know, even when they come home from school, it’s, “Oh, well, do you have a crush on anyone in your class?” Not like, “What boy do you have a crush on?” It’s, “Oh, you’re going to be the mommy? Ok, I’ll be the mommy too.” And then, “Oh, can there be two mommies?” “Yeah, of course.” And then it’s just, status quo. You know, we have books that have queer characters in them, and it’s just having that representation. It’s not always about the queer storyline — like, it’s not always, you know, “And she liked a girl.” It’s just, “And you know, Reina said goodbye to her two moms, and then went to school.” And I think it’s just normalizing those conversations really helps, and just trying to be neutral in them — not having to have a huge sitdown and being like, “Something I want to talk to you about is gay people.”
I think that casual inclusivity is so much easier for them to digest, and it’s easier for us to implement as well as parents. I felt a huge success one day when my best friend was over and we were talking about one of the teachers in our school that all the girls sort of had a crush on. And she goes, “Oh yeah, well this teacher was so hot,” and my daughter had just come down the stairs and she goes, “Oh, was the teacher a guy or a girl?” And I was like, “Aah!” Like, you didn’t just assume that she was going to be crushing on the hot guy teacher. You had to pause, because you’re open. You understand that this is totally a possibility for everybody. But yeah, I think casual inclusivity is really the way to go when we’re parenting.
Rebecca
What are your reframing tools, Emily? So where do you go when you are encountering challenge in your own life or with your kids — like you’ve really misstepped in a conversation, and how do you reframe that? Tell us about your toolbox.
Emily
For myself, I know I work through a lot of those types of challenges by writing. So I’ll, you know, think about something where maybe I took a misstep, or I made a mistake, or I said something that wasn’t necessarily wrong, but I think could be said better if I just reframed it a little bit. Often, I’ll write it and consider that by myself, and then I’ll always go back to my kids with it. I’m not going to, you know, shy away from the fact that this is my first time trying to teach kids about sex. They’re the first kids I’ve parented, and I’m bound to make mistakes. So, you know, I’ll go up to them and I’ll say, “Hey, you remember when I said that? Yeah, well I should have actually said this. This is more correct. What I said, even if it’s not necessarily wrong, this is more correct.” And I think it’s just not shying away from the other perspectives and facing them head on, because if you don’t, then you end up, you know, 19 and pregnant. Just normalizing that I don’t actually have all the answers. You know, it’s my first time being a parent, just like it’s your first time being a kid. So, you know, acknowledging that I can definitely make a mistake and look at something the wrong way, and being open to that new perspective, that shift in perspective. The reframe.
Rebecca
You’re like… I’m just finishing up Gilmore Girls.
Emily
Oh yes.
Rebecca
How does that show sit for you?
Emily
That show is interesting. I actually get quite emotional when I see the dynamics between, like, Lorelei and her parents, and when they’re talking about those first years. It’s a great show, but it’s definitely a romanticized version of what young parenthood can look like, especially if you’re going to be a successful homeowner and manager and everything — like it’s not necessarily such a clear path there.
Rebecca
You appreciate the struggle that she articulates — that I wasn’t supported, that you didn’t allow me any…
Emily
Absolutely, and I mean I say that my parents are phenomenal grandparents. They’ve been involved since day one. My mom was actually in the delivery room with me, so I have that support, but it was the perspective, really — the language that was being used around me. You know, about me. And that’s sort of the type of thing that I can empathize with, that emotional support that maybe wasn’t always as there as it could have been.
Rebecca
Yeah, like the conversations that were happening in the other room that you could sort of…
Emily
Yeah.
Rebecca
“This is what they’re thinking about me.”
Emily
Yeah. I had such an incredibly supportive… well, then boyfriend, now husband who just was like, I don’t know, a rockstar. He was like, “Well, yeah,” but I grew up in this very, like, privileged sort of a life, and he didn’t. So he was like, “Well, we can make it work — like, people have done more with less, so we can do it.” So he was really just a rock in that time, and always has been.
Natalie
I love the idea of ending what is going to be an ongoing conversation for so many families, right? That’s how we started this — is it’s ongoing. This is not a one-and-done kind of sex talk, but that it is not a clear path, and so we have to forgive ourselves in the ways that we potentially do misstep and then reframe those, and then reframe again. This is ongoing.
Emily
Of course.
Rebecca
And we have to get informed. Would you say that that’s so important in this? Like, hiding under rocks, as you said sort of, Nat, at the beginning — pretending our kids are still two years old, and it’s still all comfy. Get yourselves together and be adults and get informed about all the things you need to know, and how you need to change and update your thinking, or whatever. Would you say, Emily?
Emily
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that informing yourself with… I think I’ve mentioned, like, Emily Nagoski’s Come As You Are, Jessica Valenti, anything she’s written, those books are great places to start for people who are looking to reframe and inform themselves about sex, just in general. Not necessarily from a parenting perspective but for themselves, because like I was saying, you know, it’s a lot easier to parent in a healthy way if you’ve sort of healed that part of yourself. But also, it’s important to stay current. You know, things are changing so much. The internet that we grew up with, like when we were on Facebook or whatever, it’s not at all the internet that they’re growing up with, you know? So be familiar with the apps that they’re on. Be familiar with the shows that they’re watching, and the music that they’re listening to, and just sort of absorb the same media that they’re absorbing so that you know where they’re at — because I think that parents will often also sort of underestimate the impact that the different media that our kids are consuming, how it can impact them.
Natalie
Get cool.
Emily
Yeah, and staying involved, you know? Get to know their friends. I host a seasonal party for my kid’s classmates. So we have the pumpkin party, the snowman party, and the flowers party in my kid’s classes, and they come over and they talk at full volume, and it is like a full-on information session for me. I’m like, “Ok, so you are the kid that makes my kid feel anxious. You are the kid that’s super polite.” It really helps you map out the situation. So when they come home, they say, “Oh, well this person said that.” I’m like, “Oh, did that make you feel anxious?” Because I know the dynamics between them. So yeah, stay involved, stay current, stay informed. I guess that’s the best we can do. And then give yourself grace, because you can’t do it all. You can’t be perfect. Nobody can.